Michael:

Currently I have a couple of S&W model  60’s, older vintage, one with a bobbed hammer and a Ruger SP 101, 2 1/4” barrel.  I have been watching for an air weight S&W without the internal lock.  [Revently] I ran across a S&W model 37  in very good shape.

I don’t feel that I can justify buying another snub yet I am not sure what might [be the wiser trade for] the model 37.  I find that I most often prefer the model 60’s over the Ruger. [Your thoughts re:] dispose of the Ruger and go strictly with the model 60/37 J-frames? I know I would give up the option of .357 capability, but I normally only carry + P in the Ruger.  

Mr. R.

Dear Mr. R:
 
I hope this note finds you well.
 
Thank you for the great question.
 
Here is my thoughts … of course you’re getting what you’re paying for. 

 
Option 1 – If I had two (?) model 60’s (offering me +P power for the cooler weather concealed behind slightly heavier cover clothing) and one SP101 (offering me .357 power for the cold weather/heavier cover clothing) and then along came the chance for an airweight model 37 (offering me .38 power for the warm weather/light cover clothing) I would A) Trade-off or B) Sell-off one of the 60’s – IF(!) I could get a good price – either through the dealer or in a private sale.
 
When ever you sell-off a gun you risk “seller’s regret” but in this case you would be trading one heavy J-frame for a light weight J-frame (so its more of a metamorphosis than a loss) while you still posses a heavy J-frame and a heavy (!) duty .357.
 
Option 2 – If I had one model 60’s (offering me +P power for the cooler weather with slightly heavier cover clothing) and one SP101 (offering me .357 power for the cold weather/heavier cover clothing … which gets loaded and shot with .357 ammo rarely, is expensive to shoot and is a BEAR to master) and then along came the chance for an airweight model 37 (offering me .38 power for the warm weather/light cover clothing) I would A) Trade-off or B) Sell-off the Ruger SP101 - IF(!) I could get a good price – either through the dealer or in a private sale.
 
Why sell off the SP101 and not the one (1) model 60? – Because the 60/37 team will let you mix and match; holsters, stocks, Laser (?) stocks, (some) ammo and give a lot of season concealment versatility. In fact 75% of the time you would lose nothing (Spring/Summer/Fall.) You are only “down powering” 25% of the time – and only if you were “up loading” for the Winter with .357.
 
Also, while I LOVE the SP101 your 60/37 set operates in the exactly the same faction, specifically the cylinder release – so there is 0% chance of fumbling the release – Something you can’t guarantee with a J-frame/Ruger match up.
 
Also (again) while I LOVE the SP101 I never got over the two-piece ejector rod design. I have always thought that that “feature” was the SP101’s “Achilles heel.”
 
Chew on it for a while and let me know what you go with.
 
I would love to get your feed back and thoughts too.
 
I hope that helped.
 
Thank you again for a  great question.
 
Yours,
 
Michael de Bethencourt
SnubTraining@hotmail.com
www.SnubTraining.com

Shane wrote:

My main question is, with the rise of multiple attackers being the norm, is the snubby still a viable tool for these ever increasing challenges?

Dear Shane:
 
I hope this note finds you well.

Thank you for the great question.

If I may restate and paraphrase it, you’re asking: “Do I believe that the snubby possess a sufficient round count to be practical against multiple attackers?”

I would say the answer is (in order): No, Maybe and Yes.

Answer 1: No – I don’t know if the snub is or isn’t enough gun for some/most/all multiple attacker assaults because I don’t know the; Who, What, When, Where, How, How many, How willing, What tactics, etc. of the all the parties involved. But if I have to assume the worst case scenario – An unskilled neophyte vs. a skilled, motivated gang then I would have to say “No.”

Answer 2: Maybe – If I know something of the defender and something about the bad guy(s) I might be able to say “Maybe.”

Since everyone loves *antidotal* stories let me give you two to support (not prove) the point:

Officer X is moving his prisoner out of the housing area to the PD car. He is armed with one six-shot revolver. Friends of the bad guy show up and surround Officer X. Seventeen by some estimates. The “leader” of this ad hock gang steps in Officer X’s way and informs him that a) He (Officer X) “Ain’t taking the guy anywhere.” and b) They have more guys than he has rounds in his gun.

What would you do?  You have zero seconds. Times up. Well Officer X draws his gun, points it in the bigmouth and tells him “Yea, and the first five are for you.” Now what you need to know about Officer X is he is a shooter. A man 100% committed to shooting bad guy(s) the instant he know there isn’t another option. There is absolutely no “maybe” in anything Officer X says or does. Two seconds after the gun came out Officer X just walked his prisoner on by. Now what won the fight, the round count or the man? Now let me ask you a trick question, lets say all 17 pulled guns on Officer X. What would he have done? What would you have done?  You have zero seconds. Times up. Officer X would have shot that one guy in the face. Five times. Just like he said he would. Officer X’s secret (I believe) is that he knows that you DON’T fight 3 or 5 or 15 or what ever number of guys. You can’t. You fight ONE guy, one at a time. You may end up in 3 or 5 or X number of fights in a very short time period but you do NOT fight multiple guys a once. 
 
Second event – Officer Z is in the car doing paperwork. He has a six-shot revolver in his waist band and a vest under his uniform. Four gang bangers come up on each corner of the car. By available accounts there was one pistol per bad guy. The first bad guy to get to the car sticks his gun in the open window and starts pulling the trigger. As the bad guy’s hand is coming into the window Officer Z sees what’s coming and shoves his gun out the window, forearm passing forearm and starts pulling his trigger. So how do you think this is going to finish up – One guy with six-rounds vs. four guys with six to sixty (?) rounds? You have zero seconds. Times up. Let’s pause to ask you a question. BEFORE Officer Z started pulling the trigger how many bad guys was he facing? Four? One? You tell me. 1/100 of a second after he started pulling the trigger, how many bad guys was he facing? I’ll tell you. ZERO. They came in for an ambush. They screwed off at Mach-3 when it became a gunfight, and they didn’t sign up for no gunfight. So …

Since I know something about both Officers X and Z (I worked with both of them years ago) I can say that for them a low round count weapon can be a viable weapon against multiple attackers … sometimes.

Answer 3: But if you are asked me (Michael de Bethencourt) if I think the snub is enough gun for multiple attackers (define “multiple”) coming against me (Alone, with neither friends nor family in tow) I would say (drum roll please ….) “It’s a nonsense question. Right up there with “Do you still beat your wife?”

Here’ are my thoughts, valid only for me but I’ll share them anyway.
  
1 – No one can win a gunfight against multiple shooters so I pre-reject the concept of facing multiple shooters. Faced with multiple attackers, I plan to pick the one guy that I am reasonable certain I can stop (We don’t kill – we shoot to stop, right? … rrrright) and I make it VERY, VERY EXPENSIVE FOR HIM to try and kill me. If the gun goes dry I use my knife. If the knife breaks off I use my teeth. I have only one rule – Start one job and see it through – The universe will have to offer someone else the leftovers. Multi tasking doesn’t work in business or in gunfighting.
 
2 – Cull the herd, divide and conquer, call it what you will. In a real fight … most of the time … groups are only tough because they are anonymous. If you survive the gunfight with the one (1) guy God himself assigned to you then look around. IF there are still bag guys and IF they are still trying to kill you and IF you’re are still alive go back for “seconds.” But that is a lot of “IF’s.”

3 – Any gun you actually have-when-you-need it (even the lowly, low round count 2-inch snub) beats the entire collection of high round count guns you don’t have when you need them. So … since I carry a 2-inch snub year round, and IF I could not take Andy Stanford/Ed Lovettes’ advice to Evade, Avoid or Escape, and am forced into the fight with it (my snub) it would have to be a “viable” gun because it is the gun I will be using.

My advice on self-defense handguns comes down to this: Pick out that “minimum” gun you are absolutely certain you will be carrying when it is absolutely impractical and uncomfortable to carry any other make/model/style gun. Train with it like you will be facing three attackers. Learn to draw quickly, hit what you are aiming at quickly, learn to shoot on the move and learn to reload quickly with the spare ammo and the ammo carrier you actually carry. Train hard – its fun to do so it anyway. Then if you have to face one guy followed by one guy followed by one guy all one-after-the-other then you might just pull it off.
 
Anyway, that’s my plan.
 
Of course … I could be wrong.
 
Thank you again for the great question.

Fell free to share this with friends if you think they would be interested.
 
I hope that helped a little.
 
Yours,
 
Michael de Bethencourt
SnubTraining@hotmail.com
www.SnubTraining.com

Michael:

I have a couple of questions about your suggested “first revolver” EDC:

1. Why a Hip-grip instead of a holster for your primary gun?

2. Why do you recommend wearing the heavier gun on the ankle instead of on the belt? [Side question: Do you have problems with the ankle holster sliding down your ankle and becoming more visible?]

3. Why do you recommend having only one gun with Crimson Trace Laser Stocks?

4. Why put the CT Laser Stocks on the backup gun?

Yours,

John K

…

Dear John:

Great questions, here are a few thoughts:

1. Because as much as a RAGE about the importance of a proper low profile, concealable belt line holster (See BobMacs.com – This guy will be huge in the snub holster market) X-number of folks keep shoving their snub in their pockets (Look for another of my rants against pocket holster in the blog in a few days)

If I can’t keep them away from pocket holsters and if I can’t make them buy a comfortable and slim hip-holsters but they will slip the snub into a waist band if it is convenient then the Clipdraw, the Barami Hip-Grip and the expensive (!) but nice Collin’s Lip Grip is a functional compromise for real people.

2(a) Because a light gun on the belt won’t pull down the pants (Even a great belt/holster will pull down farther than a light gun in the same holster. At the same time, a heavy gun in the well made (Alessi, etc) ankle won’t slip down – or if it did, by how much – a 1/4 of an inch? – Also, here is a “cheap” fighting trick – I don’t want to train myself to go from my “main” gun to the BUG but from the BUG to my main gun. The light .38 snub on my belt “starts” the fight but if the fight continues past 5 or 6 rounds them I’m going for my main, heavy .357 snub on the ankle. If I’m still in the fight after the first 5 or 6 rounds I want to be moving UP in gun, not down to a BUG – If that makes sense.

2(b) Never with a well made ankle holster. Be sure to buy your pants long from the Big-and-Large shop and have the tailor hem the cuffs around the gun/ankle holster. 99% of all tailors have fitted clothing around guns (ask first) so they won’t get startled. The extra long pant leg(s) will give you a wider cuff width and when it is hemmed the gun will be covered even when you are sitting. Also consider an old state trooper trick for ankle guns. Have the fellow cut the seam up about 6 to 8 inches and sew in Velcro to close the seam. If you ever need the gun then the Velcro can aid in the draw/access.

3 and 4 – Money. No, kidding, the belt-line gun is *usually* a fast reaction draw weapon when the bad guy has attacked from ambush. By the time the ankle gun comes out either he, you, or both are behind cover. That is the time I may need a little laser stock help with distance accuracy and intimidation.

I hope that helps.

Yours,

Michael

CTC 205 Laser Stocks

Dear Michael:

I have a question regarding CT laser grips: Why were the model 205s discontinued? I really like these grips and have just made the decision to invest in them and I have recently come to find out that they are no longer made. I understand that I can still find them on the internet, but I am wondering if there was\ is some problem with them. Alternately, my second choice would be the 105’s, just would like some advice on this. Thanks for your time.

Your,

Dustin

CTC 105 laser stocks

Dear Dustin:

Thank you for the great e-mail.

I don’t know why they dropped the 205. It was the best of the laser stocks. I have been given several reasons over the years but the reason(s) vary with the source.

The 105 is an option, but in terms of features it runs a very distant second to the 205.

The 105’s sole advantage is that you can buy it new with a warranty.

If I had to go with the 105 I would reduce the circumference of the stocks closest to the butt (it is currently built with a “bird-head’s style – yuck!) I would also re-cut the stocks to take speedloaders.

For the cost and time involver you would think these features would already be present.

Also, chances are if one fixes the stock one would void the warranty – so we end back at the 205.

On an aside, I will do a blog photo piece on how to fix the 105’s problems so keep your eye on the blog.

Thank you again for the great question.

I hope this information was of some value.

Yours,

Michael

Hi Michael,

Q 1 – I have been studying your strong hand reloading technique (I am right handed), which I believe is a major contribution to swift and effective reloading. However, I have a question. When bringing the pistol up to perform the ejection, how do you avoid having hot spent shell casings fall into your shirt cuff? I guess if you are wearing the right shirt it wouldn’t matter, but I often roll up my sleeves. Do you raise the right arm up higher and arch it toward your body so they fall free?

Q 2 – Also, I have a Smith and Wesson 640 (all steel), and I am really enjoying training with it. You mentioned the Barami grip on your website. If I were to use that set up, where do you recommend carry? At the 2:00 area, or behind the hip?

Q 3 – Finally, I am considering having some Bowen sights installed on the above pistol. However, I am wondering whether it is necessary to have it done. It seems you’re your technique doesn’t require precision sighting. The Bowen sights are very appealing (perhaps because it is what I am used to on my 1911), and I think it would be a nice enhancement on my pistol. I noticed you linked to Bowen on your website. Do you recommend this installation?

Thanks for all the info you have developed and published on your website. I am really getting a great deal from studying it. I hope someday to be able to take a class with you.

John

Dear John:

Thank you for your questions. Here are my thoughts:

A 1 – The rate at which the .38’s cool has always been so quick that I never noticed the residual heat off the ejected rounds. It is a great question though so I will have to test some hot .357 and see how the rate of cooling fits in with the current technique.

A 2 – As much as I like the Barami I usually only use them on an Air Weight snub and not with an all steel guns. I find that to keep my pants up I have to pull the belt too tight to offer a fast draw. When I carry an all steel gun it is usually as a 2nd gun to my Air Weight 1st gun and the all steel gun is (with me) in an Alessi ankle holster. With that said, with the Barami on an Air Weights I generally carry in just to the right of my belt buckle. For the draw stoke I like to practice coming straight down on the stocks from above, then pulling the snub across (to the right) and up toward my right-side floating rib.

A 3 – Ouch! That is a tough question. Generally I like anything that improves sight acquisition. Bowen is expensive but for some snubs that don’t shoot point-of-aim, point-of-impact it is an option. It is also an option for shooters with poorer (near sight) vision. Regarding my own aiming methods I try and practice five sighted fire methods: NRA classic or traditional, Cooper/Stanford Flash sight, Ayoob StressFire, Cirillo Silhouette and an eclectic laser stock method. Point of fact, while I like the Bowen I am a little more partial to the XS sights with the “U” rear sight option whenever they are available.

I hope that helps – Yours, Michael

Hi Michael,

I have limited experience with a revolver. My shooting skills are probably intermediate at this point, but beginner for a revolver. I have a few questions if you don’t mind.

• What snub revolver do you recommend?
• Any downside to “hammerless” revolvers?
• I am left handed, do I have other issues to consider?
• Does S & W shooting range let people test revolvers before I purchase?

My intention is to either carry on my hip or on my ankle for personal protection. I am leaning towards a Smith but would love your input on which model.

Thanks for your time and I hope that you have a great holiday.

Best regards,
Jim

m38 Air Weight J-frame

Dear Jim:

Thank you for for the great questions. Here are my thoughts:

What snub revolver do I recommend?

Snub options will depend a lot on the shooter’s hand size but generally I like any J-frame (5-shot) S&W in Air Weight (but not the AirLite guns.) The blue steel guns are also good if you can work around the extra weight. I also like the alloy frame 6-shot Colts and while the alloy 6-shot S&W are great guns their K-frame size is – for some shooters – not optimum for a deep concealment.

Is there any downside to “hammerless” revolvers?

I know all the famous gun writers/trainers rave about the hammerless (Centennial) guns – but I advocate for the shrouded (Bodyguard) styles – or failing that an Air Weight Chief Special with an after market shroud (Full disclosure – I am helping Waller and Son dispose of the last of the J-frame hammer shrouds)

The reason I like a shrouded snub is that there are a few “ready it fire” checks you can do both safely and quickly with a shrouded snub you can’t do with the hammerless snubs

I am left handed, do I have other issues to consider?

The snub is a non-symmetric weapon like a semi-auto pistol but there are no problem shooting the snub left handed in our classes. Currently I have two loading videos for the snub on YouTube – one is for the left handed shooter. It is not as slick as the LFI StressFire method but I think it is more reliable. Either way we cover and advocate skill with both methods. Try “Googling” snub reloading left handed – both methods should come up.

Does S & W shooting range let people test revolvers before I purchase?

The Smith and Wesson Shooting Sport Center does rent snub for use on their public shooting range. You can contact them for current rental rates at 800-331-0852

Advice (?) -

If I were new to the snub this is where I would start: I would find a S&W Bodyguard model 38 (Air weight) – render it double action only (do not “bob” the hammer) and chamfer the cylinders. If it was my only gun I would add a Barami Hip-Grip and a Tyler T-grip adaptor – Such a basic set-up would cover 99% of all your shooting needs.

If I wanted a second gun for back-up or an “understudy” gun for heavy training I would get another snub – a blue steel version of the same gun, the Bodyguard model 49 and render it double action only and chamfer the cylinders.

I would also pick up an Alessi ankle holster and (if I were saving money I would buy another Barami/Tyler grip set-up. If I had some extra money I would order a set of Spegel Boot Grips. If I wanted the best early and had the money I would get a set of Crimson Trace 205 laser stocks. If I could not afford laser stocks right away I would save up for a set.

The only extra I would allow myself is replacing the current “art-deco” style cylinder releases with a classic style set of releases. The old style releases offer several advantages over the new style.

If I had two snub set up in the above fashion I would consider myself “set” for life. The contact info for all that gear is on the “links” page on the SnubTraining web page. For what its worth.

If I missed anything or if the answers lead you to think of new questions please feel free to e-mail me. I hope this helped.

Thank you again for the great questions.

Yours,

Michael de Bethencourt
www.SnubTraining.com

Spegel Boot Grip stocks

I need to get a set of grips for the other Cobra and was wondering if Spegel’s would do the job. The newer Cobra has the long handle. I was wondering if that would be a problem.

Yours,

Albert

Dear Albert:

Thank you for the question.

First the good-news – Spegel make the only stocks I put on my self-defense guns.

They are well made, comparable in price to any on the market, are the ONLY set of stocks properly relieved for all models and shapes of speedloaders, and there is enough material in them for a good grip without adding material that would compromise concealment.

Craig Spegel generally make up his Boot Grips for S&W J-, K- and N-frame guns but he currently has the tooling up-and-running for Colt Cobras, Agents and Detective Specials.

Unfortunately your second Colt has a “long” frame and the Spegel Boot Grips are cut only to fit the “short” frame Colts.

There are a few options.

On the high end you can ask your gunsmith what he would charge to “bob” the frame to match the short frame’s dimensions. Unfortunately, when you add up the cost of gunsmithing and the cost of the stocks the total could become prohibitive.

Alternatively, you could go with another stock maker.

Eagle Grips Secret service stocks (for J-frames)

If I have to go that route I would choose a set of Eagle Grip’s Secret service stocks (no connection to the US Secret Service) They do not have the same fit or finish of the Spegel stocks, and they are not relieved for speedloaders to the degree the Spegel stocks are but they are the best second option currently available.

I hope the information is of some help.

Thank you again for the great question.

Yours,

Michael de Bethencourt

Dear Randy:

I hope this note finds you well.

Thank you for the question.

It is a contentions question.

Dave Kenik, author of ARMED RESPONSE is a good friend and an arch competitor.

He and I have gone round-and-round on this question for years.

Here are the short answers:

I think the weight difference is an issue. I find that a well made pocket holster take SOME of the weight issue of the table but that one never gets comfortable with all that weight in the pocket.  Also, that an AirWeight (But not a Air-Lite) will also do extra duty as a jacket pocket gun, a belt line gun (with a Barami Hip-Grip) or an ankle gun.

An all steel gun will work but never as well as an AirWeight gun for all these options. Also in the interest of full disclosure – I am America’s great Anti-Pocket carry crusader. I argue you can’t get the gun out of the pocket quickly when, walking, running or sitting which is something that you might be doing when you need it.

That said …

David argues that a good pocket holster will take up most on the weight and that if you carry a loaded AirWeight in one pocket and a loaded all steel snub in the other within a few weeks you can’t tell the difference.  He should know as he ran this test for months using a S&W Airweight in one pocket and a Ruger SP101 in the other. Also he is the BIGGEST pocket holster/carry fan/advocate I have ever run into.

So …

As much as I love him I think David is crazy. I would push for the AirWeight.

There are a few pocket carry tricks worth noting.

Be sure your pocket opening is at least 6-inches wide.  If it is you should be able to draw the weapon without to much trouble unless you have an extra large hand.

Most pockets are not deep enough to hide a snub and the holster so consider getting a dummy gun copy of your carry snub and bring it and your holster to either a seamstress or a tailor. Either can rework the pocket so the snub/holster sits deep enough to hide but not so deep that you can’t reach it.

Remember to practice drawing the gun from a seated position. On the range get a chair and practice extending the carry side leg before you start the draw stroke. This will aid in the draw access.

Finally, be sure to use either a hammerless, shrouded or bobbed hammer snub. Otherwise that hammer spur will often catch the edge of the pocket on the draw.

I hope this information helps a little.

E-mail me if missed anything.

Yours,

Michael de Bethencourt

Info@SnubTraining.com

SmartCarry holsters

Greetings Michael:

I have just a quick question as to your opinion of the Smart Carry holster.  I am a committed snub man and have used the Smart Carry for over a year.  I have recently discovered your web site and found various articles on your philosophy and training. I am just curious about your experience with the Smart Carry and your advice pro or con.  Thanks and I hope you write a book soon!  K.C.

Dear K.C.:

I hope this note finds you well.

Thank you for the great question.

I know and have used both ThunderWear and Smart Carry.  Several CCW trainers I know swear by Smart Carry.

Thunderwear holster

Here are a few random thoughts:

Smart Carry seems like a slightly better designed version of ThunderWare. Smart Carry’s stitching and seams are in the “right” direction. That does not mean that the rear of the cylinder won’t catch the seam on the Smart Carry on a draw stroke, but it is a lot less likely to catch.

If you go with a Smart Carry get one with a slightly longer set of Velcro straps.  I got mine extra long and then measured to optimum (personal) size. You can have the excess cut off and last 1/2 inch of the tail end of the Velcro folded over and stitched (This creates a 1/4-inch ‘tab’). A local seamstress should be able to do it for a few dollars. This will give you a sized prefect strap and the 1/4 inch tab on the end will help you putting the Smart Carry on and off.

Three other items:

1st - If you ask, Smart Carry will sell an ultra thin Kydex shell that fits your snub and can be glued into the Smart carry for re-holstering.  I find fitting the snub with a Barami Hip Grip and a Tyler T-grip adaptor a better idea.  I do understand the need to secure the snub after the draw stroke but slipping it back into the waist band with the Barami is a safer and faster option than trying to slip the snub back into the Smart Carry.

2nd – Remember to use stretch waistband pants with little or nothing in the pockets. Belted pants make accessing the snub difficult and items in the pockets will require you to cinch up the belt. I generally use the Smart Carry when ever I absolutely can’t be spotted with a gun and will often have to by-pass the usual materials in my pockets.

3rd – Consider buying a left hand Smart Carry if you are right handed.  The right hand Smart Carry will carry the snub low and snug. It is great for ultra concealment bur access is already slow enough reaching into the pants. If you get a left hand carry then use it for a right hand draw the snub will be angled more of the snub’s grip for an easier draw.

Remember that either a right or left hand Smart Carry will take time to get “comfortable” with, not unlike an ankle holster. But it is a workable solution when you absolutely can’t be spotted with a handgun abut are just as committed to carrying one.

I hope this information helps.

On an aside, I would like to add your question to the blog. Would you rather be listed as K.C., Ken C. or some other non de plume?

Yours,

Michael de Bethencourt